SMiller

I changed the oil on my 919 at 200 miles with a Honda filter a regular Honda oil. I will be changing it again a little before 1000 miles with a Honda filter and Amsoil syn. 10w-40 motorcycle oil.

arendaja

Hi guys!

Quick question about choosing oil. Got a bit confused here.
Honda dealer recommended semi synthetic API SF/SG 10W-40 and they use Castrol or ELF brands.
But other workshop recommended only Castrol R4 10W-50 full synthetic?!

Which to choose?
Usually i change oil after 5000km and bike has done about 12000km overall.

UJM

Here is mine dime.

Do not swap brands or types/weights of oils for the life of the machine, rule #1.

Rule #2, change oil and filter every 3000 miles

Rule #3, Honda motorcycles, use GN4 10/40

I feel it is a waste of money to go with a expensive brand oil, I'm not paying for their luxury suites at the races or their race teams, you can if you want, but do not try and tell me their oil is better without some unbiased proof that it really makes any difference to someone who is going to change it every 3000 miles anyway.

In my Metropolitan/Ruckus scooters, I change the oil every 500 miles - Why? Because they get ridden at WOT almost all the time.

Super Sneaky Steve

OIL! YEAH!

Bigdaa

There are as many oil opinions as there are oils. 5km sounds perfect for change interval. As to oil choice..........whichever makes shifting the easiest. I remember the best shifting in my ZX10R with Motul, but it was expensive. It was 100% synthetic.

nd4spdbh

Run Shell rotella T 15w-40 in my 919 as well as my crf250... best oil around... perfect for motorcycles. Can be had at walmart for 11 bucks for a gallon. There is also Shell Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic that alot of ppl use... 22 bucks for a gallon. No energy conserving aditives so its at home in motorcycles.... Tests have shown it better than hondas oil.

andrewebay1

+1 Shell Rotella! I use Syn 5w-40 in colder months (3000 intervals) and the 15w-40 (2000 intervals) in summer with lots of WOT. Great oil, even better price.

nd4spdbh

yup never gets cold nuff here for me to use the syn... i do 2500 mi intervals... im not super hard on it. OH and hiflofiltro filters from ebay... 10 bucks a piece shipped.

catonsvilleguy

I suggest you do your own research and decide for yourself. Here is a good place to start:

Motorcycle Oil and Filters

3dcycle

well i have not used alot of different oils, but here is what i have tried honda gn 10w30 ehh me no like, as soon as i used hp 10w 30 the shifting smoothed out a little and the engine reved smoother yea i know this for a fact because the idle rpms when up 700rpms from before oil change to 10 seconds after. then i switched to amsoil 10w40 shifting WAY better than HP stuff idle did how ever drop by about 100rpms or so, but worth it in the smooth shifting. i may try to get some 10w30 in amsoil or royal purple, problem with the purple stuff is it looks black coming out of the bottle gunna look really bad when i change it.... i run purple in my truck

AllanB

Oil threads - cool fun.

I did a fair bit of net research prior to my last change and there is a load of shit out there.

Some interesting stuff I discovered:
1.
3 big name makers websites stated there is no issue with changing brands and there should not be.
They also stated you may change from non to semi to non to full to semi etc as you see fit. Residual oil in the engine is relatively minimal and will mix with the new.

Spectro has a good FAQ section on their site as does Amsol.

2.
Not all oils are equal in the 919 - I ran Castrol Semi for a while and thought it was 'good' until I recently changed to Motul 5100 semi-synth - the shifting with the transmission has improved immensely - I highly recommend this oil.

Put it this way after riding another 919 using Motul 5100, after only 400 kms I dumped out $69 worth of Castrol Semi-synth and spent a similar amount again changing to Motul 5100. (NZ oil prices here).

Now I am wonder just how good their full synthetic is!

3.
Americans are tight-wads when it comes to changing oil - you'll go to Walmart and save $10 on some cheap crap over a quality Motorcycle specific oil. You'll probably then spend that $10 at MacDonalds. What gives?

4.
Use Motorcycle specific oil - sure 300 plus others use Diesel truck oil with no problems, but why risk it in YOUR engine?

5.
Using a different brand from your dealer will not stuff your warranty, provided it is a oil that meats the makers specifications - check your owners manual for this. Of interest to you in the USA, I have NEVER even seen genuine Honda oil at a dealer, if fact if you call around 4 different Honda dealer here you'll probably find they all use different brands of oil. And all claim they are 'the best' for you bike.

6.
In New Zealand Honda specify a 10w40 oil for the Hornet 900 (919) - I wonder why they specify a 10 w 30 in the states.

7.
Honda does run their engines on the production line - each is started and on a rolling road the transmission is tested. Rpms are involved here as well. Local Honda dealers have confirmed this on factory visits.

8.
All the dealers I know of throw in a semi-synthetic oil at the first service (or full synth if it is a Triumph) - that's 1,000kms (600 miles) on the 919.


And finally - don't baby that engine too much - that's a good way to get a oil burner.

Blackheart

...is not the study of Tribbles as found on Star Trek. It's a title regarding the science of lubrication. There are so many mis-statements and inaccuracies in this thread, it's worth about what we paid for the thread: nothing.

I see this misconception constantly in motorcycle threads: "moly" will hurt the clutch. Not ALL molybdenum is "harmful" to clutches. The type that causes slippage is the only type that is "harmful" to clutches. It has to do with it's particular shape...that which lays down at a molecular level similar to shale rock is the kind that causes slippage. The other shapes are mostly just a good anti-wear additive.

Other misconceptions:

Dino oil comes from Dinosauers. Not so. Plant and other mineral bases comprise "dino" oil. It's more accurate to say "mineral oil". It's MOST accurate to say "non-synthetic". But, even "synthetic" can mean a severely hydrocracked mineral oil...so, the terminology is not even scientifically accurate. Basically, "Synthetic" is a marketing terminology, not a scientific terminology.

Synthetics are more "slippery". Not necessarily so. A Synthetic can easily be LESS slippery than a given non-synthetic. Compare a "sticky" synthetic to a mineral oil with flat-plate Molybdenum additives...I guarantee there are many mineral oils on the market that are more slippery than some synthetics.

Synthetics have less VII's (Viscosity Index Improvers)...not necessarily, it depends upon the formulation of oils being compared. It is true that many synthetics have fewer or no VII's, and are therefore less prone to "shearing out of grade".

Synthetics are more resistant to thermal stress. Usually true. But, it depends upon the additives and base formula of the oils being compared, and in the case of an oil with additives...the ability of the particular additive to withstand the thermal change may change over time.

You must wait a certain amount of time using mineral oil prior to changing over to synthetic. Usually not true with modern engines.

Synthetics cause leaks. Seal incompatibility is mostly a thing of the past, but, some synthetics naturally react with seal material differently than most mineral base oils.

Summary: use what you want; if it's the right spec for the engine according to the owner's manual, it doesn't much matter if the bottle says Synthetic or not. It will almost always be perfectly fine for the application.

As far as what I use in a wet-clutch bike: Whatever is on sale that meets the specs, or, Rotella 15w40. Rotella 15w40 may not technically meet the specs, but, I've done this on bikes for 36 years and have NEVER had an oil-related problem on any of my bikes....which includes 4 Kawasaki, 1 Yamaha, 4Hardly-D's, 1 Suzuki, 3 Honda, and 5 BMW's (nine of these bikes don't have wet clutches...if you don't know which 9, you don't know enough to even consider doing anything other than what your owner's manual suggests.) After studying results of various oils in various bikes and doing honest research on the subject for a couple of years, I decided I had simply worried too much. Now, I ride more and worry less.

Just because my choices worked for me, doesn't mean it will work for you...because my riding conditions may be different than your riding conditions. But, I bet MOST of the riders that read this won't be operating bikes in conditions much different than mine. When in doubt, TEST, and get an expert Tribologist to interpret the results and make suggestions on how to proceed. I did.

Short version: too much worry on the subject overall for the average rider. It just isn't going to matter much in the real world.

Two Brothers

I run Mobil 1 10W40 on my ST1300 I don't think the mileage matters. Most motors these days are good to go out of the box.

I will ad that my Electra Glide does not like HD SYN3, or AMSOIL. It prefers the Motul or Mobil 1. It just runs better. So you might have to find a blend that you like. If it makes the bike shift better or start easier, run cooler. Then stick with it. Just some thoughts

UJM

10w30 gives slightly better fuel economy rating

The same time every Honda switched to 10/30 was the same time the tool kits vanished.....

3dcycle

10w30 was the standard for honda in 07, i was told there is no internal differences to the new engines just better fuel economy as UJM has stated. the reason they do not suggest the lighter oil for the pre 07 bikes is that they would have to reprint all those owners manuals

AllanB

Weird - what happened in 2007 - presumably some tree-hugging-greenie bill was passed by the Government regarding fuel ratings or something. I know someone with a 'last' model 919 in New Zealand, I'll check his handbook and see what that says.

And I did get a tool-kit in mine. Surprised they dropped these!

mcromo44

Yes, 10W30 gives slightly better fuel economy, and was surely selected on the basis of that, and that alone. In other words, the re-predicted engine component wear rate life was deemed as being "good enough" but not "as good as it was".

Remember when Ford dropped down to xW20? Ford knew that some life sacrifice would result, but it would still be "good enough", and their sole pursuit was for any increase in fuel mileage they could get. (per SAE magazine of the time)

adamjayp

Wow. I did not know that. I had actually wondered many times why my friend with a Ranger had to buy special 5w20 oil all the time. Seemed crazy to me. I'm guessing then there is no problem switching one of these cars/trucks over to 5w30? Just a slight loss of economy?

nd4spdbh

^ most likely

The thing with oil i have found especially in motorcycle and dirbikes... it really doesnt matter what you use... a good quality oil of the right specification dino or syn. So long as you change your oil often... I have ran standard 15w40 shell rotella T in my CRF250X for the past 6 years... im HARD on that bike... yet internal parts show VERY little sign of wear.. hell im still on the stock valves (only have needed to shim exhausts ONCE even with my 06 250R cam... oh did i mention im on my 9th rear tire), original piston and rings with more power at the rear wheel than what i started with. In the CRF people dont realize that your only playing with 3/4ths of a quart for all engine lubrication... that oil gets chewed up QUICK regardless of the type... and that ports over to our 919... we have 4 quarts of oil lubing a 4 cylinder motor with dual overhead cams 16 valves AND a transmission all while revving up to 11ish k rpms. Oil is going to get chewed up... so just change it!

catonsvilleguy

There are many differences between typical 10W30 and 10W40. One major difference is that 10W40 typically breaks down faster than 10W30. As for fuel economy, most 10W30 is specified as "energy conserving". Energy conserving oil is specifically NOT recommended for use in motorcycles because it has friction reducing additives which can make a wet clutch slip. There is little inherent difference in fuel economy among non-energy-conserving motor oils.

If you want some accurate, scientific information on motor oil, the link below is really is a great place to start. If you want a plethora of misinformation, this thread is a great resource.

Motorcycle Oil and Filters

Blackheart

And the 4.6 Modular engines still chug along for over 300,000 miles...just ask the cab drivers.

The older Xw30's would quickly shear to a 20-weight range, and the newer Xw20's are very resitant to shear. Hence, no significant difference in wear rates noted between the two oils in real-world examples. That's cars, not motorcycles, though. AND, no wet-clutches in the sump of the cars.

andrewebay1

Well...if the stuff at Walmart and truck stops can do this for motors (one that's used on the drag strip at that),<<< LINK) then I feel awfully smart. Big difference between a tight-wad and one who's informed. Sorry, but there's an abundance of Rotella riders worldwide. And as crazy at it may seem for people who buy motorcycle oil to see others use diesel oil, it's even crazier for people who use the diesel oil to see people dishing out $10+/quart for motorcycle specific oil..

But then again, it is your engine and hard earned money. Do what makes you feel better!

AllanB

Shell make some very good oils - called Helix in NZ they also sell a motorcycle specific full synth oil linky here: Shell New Zealand - Shell Australia Advance Motorcycle Oils Lubricants.
I'd happily use that. But not the car oil ..... maybe it's the same shit in an expensive package, I really do not know but not going to risk it in my engine.

The passage below is nicked from the SHELL Rotell truck web site FAQ section

Can heavy-duty diesel oil be used in motorcycles?


Motorcycle gasoline engines may not seem in the same league as the big displacement diesel engine under your hood, but they share some of the same lubrication requirements. So yes, in many cases, a premium heavy-duty universal oil capable of serving both diesel and gasoline engines is the best choice for your bike.

The high power-to-displacement ratio of a motorcycle engine means rod and main bearings are subjected to loads that are not normally found in passenger car engines. The valve train is also highly loaded, and requires extreme pressure boundary lubrication. The same can be said about gears in the transmission, which are normally lubricated by engine oil. Oil additives containing phosphorus protect these highly loaded extreme pressure areas (in both gasoline and diesel engines). Because diesel engines have higher loading of components, more of the phosphorus-containing additive is present than in typical passenger car oils. And with advanced catalyst systems for gasoline engines, the phosphorus content has been declining in passenger car oils.

Since many bike engines are air-cooled, and tend to be operated at high power outputs and speeds, their lubricating oil needs to be more resistant to high temperature oxidation. That?s another advantage of a premium universal oil. Another thing you want in your motorcycle is oil that has excellent viscosity control, so that with use it retains high temperature viscosity. Some multiviscosity grade passenger car oils, subjected to extreme loads, can quickly thin out. Their viscosity can drop to the next lower grade.

One last thing to consider is whether oil contains friction modifier additives. For improved fuel economy, most passenger car oils have such an additive. But the wet clutch in your bike doesn?t perform right with friction modifiers. Universal engine oils don?t have friction modifiers.

Be careful choosing diesel oils. Not all of them are universal. In addition to the API Service Category CI-4 PLUS for diesels, look for API Service Category SL.

Premium universal oils like Shell ROTELLA? T Multigrade are formulated for heavy-duty performance, and your bike engine has some heavy-duty challenges for oil. For optimum performance, be sure your oil is up to the challenge.

So ah, yes, kind of, well maybe, and it's good stuff ......... make up your own mind but don't sue us ......

You could probably spend all evening getting lap dances then squeeze 3.6l of massage oil into the engine and it would still last 100,000 miles.

But don't blame me if it does not work..........

AllanB

We should probably also discuss non Honda oil filters too.

Me I use Honda filters .....

Mind you in NZ there is little choice unless you are purchasing offshore. I did run Hi-flow filters in a Kawasaki years ago after a lot of research - they actually make filters for many bike factories, just brand them with their logo etc. I pulled apart a Hi-flow and Kawasaki filter and they were exactly the same.

But I do like the look of that nice little nut welded on the end of the K&N 919 filter.

I notice the genuine Honda filters I pay too much for are actually made in the USA. Anyone on this site make motorcycle oil filters for a living?

And finally, does anyone else here save their used oil filter and then cut it open to see if there is any crud inside?

I started doing this after reading a Internet expert claiming there is a lot of visible swarf and shit in a new engine that gets caught in the oil filter before the first change (he also said change the filter after the first 50 miles due to this reason).

I've been cutting them open on the last two new bikes I've had - not a friggen hint of any form of metal or metallic flakes visible to the eye or under a eyeglass in my engines.

Blackheart

I've done this, too. I did have a significant amount of shavings on a Kawasaki 650 engine the first two Oil Change Intervals...and, I left the filter in the entire time...so, that was about 2500 miles. Why leave it in? Because studies show filters get MORE EFFICIENT the longer they are left in. Unless you are totally loading it up and going into bypass, you get better efficiency leaving it in. I ALWAYS leave motorcycle filters in for two oil change intervals. I had cars where I'd leave it in THREE OCI's, backed up by Oil Analysis...sure enough, the Insoluables dropped from 0.3 to 0.2 on this particular car...anything less than 0.6 is considered to be "clean".

Again, these numbers mean nothing, unless you have exactly the same operating conditions in your vehicle than I have in mine. You'll only be guessing if you don't test.

Super Sneaky Steve

The next person to post in this thread is admitting to being really really gay.

So if you've been waiting for that special time to come out of the closet, here's your chance!

Sniper

Several years ago I put Mobile 1 in my 929. Shortly there after, I was putting new clutch plates in my 929.

From now on I just run what the mfg says.

nd4spdbh

sniper must be gay according to SSS hahhahhah

That link on the 65k mile bike using standard shell rotella t dino is awesome... thats why i use the shit.. CUS IT WORKS! Rotella T 15w-40 FTW!

nine1nine

Oil; synthetic or conventional is not the limiting factor of an engine, the lubrication system is.
Use the manufacturer recommended weight, and change your oil at the recommended interval. Beyond that, you are pretty much at the Mercy of the design of your lubrication system.